posted August 11, 2002 10:14 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by Pearl:
Also, my mother-in-law got shingles. They say that one gets this disease from having had CP. This disease has been very painful for her and not something I would want to get.

So now I am wondering if we should get Zachary vacinated, just for the reasons that he might end up getting sicker or to avoid getting shingles when he is an adult.

Pearl

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Pearl, just FYI, you can get shingles from having had the CP vaccine, too. Remember that the vaccine is essentially the "same" as getting CP itself...you just don't get the same or as bad symptoms. (Just different ones, I guess. )

So anyway, just a little piece of advice to not go and get the vaccine just to avoid shingles, because I think it can still happen.

posted August 12, 2002 02:04 PM                  

I have a couple of questions. (I read this thread with great interest)

What are the implications of not getting boosters?

I have all my children vaccinated (except the newest Prevnar) and we are due for 6year boosters according to the medical profession. I know boosters are given before a child enters school - no problem here, but is it necessary to "boost" them? Even I, by requirement of my nursing school, had to get a booster (I was 26 then) before I entered school as I was going to be working in the field - I got the regular round.

Here's another question.

What are the implications of NOT ever vaccinating your children? I know HepB is not necessary unless your children are exposed, and being a SAHM and HSer, our risk is SO low. Mumps, measles, rhubella, what else, cp? I did that - I was iffy on that one, wished I hadn't. Hemoinfluenza - what's that? and is this serious?

Luckily, to our knowlege, our kids have not had any problems with the vaccs.

What if we started seeing outbreaks of the diseases in MMR - how about polio? again, as at least polio was devastating and widespread, would we be able to treat these? Would there not be statistics involved with all these too?

If anyone is interested in emailing me they may!!

posted August 12, 2002 03:15 PM                  

I am 42 years old and I had mumps and measles both kinds and chicken pox's as kids and so did my folks first 3 or 4 kids. Now Diphtheria scares me whooping cough does not. Both my parents had MMR and whooping cough and chicken poxs as kids.

I have read a couple of medical studies done in the third world and here comparing children who were vaccinated and those who were not. What the studies showed was that in the thrid world (South America) Asthma and Eczema was almost none existent but in countries that had vaccines the death rate from Asthma was raising at an alarming rate. One of the theories that came out of those studies is that the immune system needs to be stressed just like our heart does with exercise and when it is not it will look for stressors. Thus things that normally would not cause severe allergic reactions now do.

I have read the same kind of medical papers being written by vets that the raise in some cancers in pets is due to the vaccinating the pets every year. There is a school of thought in the vet world that maybe instead of mandatory rabies every year here should be a mandatory titer test done and then if the titers are low a rabies or ____ shot should be given.

Most kids who die from measles do due to dehydration not the measles them selves. In the US with stuff like pedialite and gatorade and meds to bring fevers down how big a threat is the measles really. In fact mom could make her own drink to rehydrate a child all it is if I remember right is a tbs. of sugar and a tsp. of salt to a pint of water have to check my medical missions book for sure tho.

Most of the things that we vaccinate for are not the big threat they are played to be. Tetanus is, diphtheria is, small pox which I was vaccinated for is, chicken pox is not. Yes chicken pox is a problem for an adult or teen as is the mumps but why should we be manipulating the immune system of our children when we really do not fully understand the immune system in children for what might happen to an adult male's fertility. I can understand Rubella for what it might do to an unborn child but still it is a might.

Also as a nurse you probably know that a blood test can be given to check a persons titer (sp?) levels. One study that I read was that some kids only needed one MMR and that their titer levels staid high enough to provide protection for several years. So why is it not protocol to allow all parents and docs to do a titer level and check if the child even needs a second or third or booster of any vaccine. The bottom line is that the CDC has a fear that they must cover all the bases that a certain percentage will need a second shot and a certain percentage may need a third and then a percentage needs a booster and of course then there is the angle that the manufactor of the vaccine make more money if they have folks getting more than one shot. So instead of allowing parents and docs to do what is really best for a child they make sweeping laws that every child needs 3 MMR and a booster that way no one will fall through the cracks and their bases are all covered.

Also there have been several studies done that show breaking up the multiple shots are easier on some kids immune systems but again the CDCs thoughts are we have a hard time getting folks in for the ever growing number of vaccines so we will keep the triple shots. The official thought is that if the broke up the MMR and the DPT that folks just would not follow through. May be that would be true and maybe not but the bottom line is it should be my right as a parent to choice a titer level blood test, a shot without fetal material in it, and single vaccine shots. However the CDC and others in government have decided that parents really can't make these kind of decisions and so we loose some rights.

I have read a ton of stuff on vaccines in past 6 years and what I have found is the driving fource is behind vaccines is money. This is espcially true with vaccines like chicken pox. It costs x amount in lost work time when mom or dad has to stay home with a sick child. It costs x amount for ps and preschools when a child is out. Vaccines bring a lot of money to manufactures of vacines especially since they are protected from law suites by the government when their product goes wrong. It is my opinion that we are all to ready to let some expert some where think for us. To let some one else do the research for us. Because we have become like this we loose are freedoms to make our own choices and we put ourselves and our children in the hands and at the mercy of CDC officials who stand to make millions by pushing their vaccine thro as a mandatory shot for every child.

Blessings†
Rebecca

posted August 12, 2002 03:21 PM                  

I will attempt to answer your question here. If you want, you can have a blood test done on your children to test for titers for immunity on any and all of the diseases we are vaccinated before. If the test shows that your children have immunity, there is no need for boosters and your doctor just writes down that there is immunity on the medical form/chart. Unfortunately, sometimes insurance companies do not want to pay for this test, and I have heard that some doctors also do not want to do this although I cannot understand why (unless they hold stock in the pharmaceutical companies, which is very possible). This may be something you want to look into to see if the boosters are really necessary.

There are always implications for not vaccinating. In my case, where I have a son with a neurological disorder, and a first cousin with MS (another neurological disorder), we opted t take our chances in not vaccinating our youngest. Over time, we may decide to give certain vaccines, one at a time. Tetnus would be one I want to do, but that has been linked to possibly lowering mylenization in the brain and Macklin has lower than average mylenization in his brain so even this vaccine, which I would prefer to give, is one we have held out on. If Vivian received a deep puncture wound the vaccine could be given immediately in the ER and be effective against tetnus.

Have you followed the other thread on vaccines? There are some good book suggestions that deal with this issue. Haemophilus Influenzae Type B (Hib) is for one form of Meningitis and is a pretty new vaccine. We all survived without it. It might be good for an infant who is going to a large day care setting, but research has shown that the incidence of Hib in children who are breastfed is very low. After age 18 mos. the risk of contracting this and dying from it is decreased.

If an outbreak of something terrible in this country happened dh and I would have to sit down and make some serious decisions about vaccinating Vivian. Better sanitation and medications have greatly contributed to the reduction of many of these diseases as well as vaccines. My personal opinion is, if you choose to vaccinate, consider giving only one shot at a time so as not to overload the immune system. Also, it is good science as, if the child does have a reaction, everyone will know exactly which shot was the problem. The way it is done now is more convenient for the medical personnel and for families as well (less trips to the doctor) but there is no way to know what shot was the problem with certainty when you give three or four vaccines in one visit (and some of those vaccines include three different viruses).

posted August 27, 2002 04:21 AM                  

Secondly, (((((HUGS))))) to all of you! Please don't let this issue be one of guilt if you are just learning of this! Give it to the LORD and go on! We are all surely passionate about our methods, but this is not an issue of salvation. Do what's right for you and your family. Just wanted to chime that in~we mammas certainly can share our shortcomings easily and carry that guilt forever!

posted August 27, 2002 07:06 AM                  

Just so you are aware, since I see you also live in IL, last year legislation was passed that said if you are an Illinois resident, and do not vaccinate for RELIGIOUS reasons, this does not warrent an investigation by DCFS for medical neglect, which is a very good thing. Every state has its own laws regarding exemptions. All states have medical exemptions, most have religious exemptions (AK just passed legislation revoking the religious exemption unfortunately. There are two other states that do not allow religious exemptions) and approximately 15 states have a "philosophical exemption".

Mrs.EricL, you are correct about the Rubella vaccine originally being cultured on fetal material. The three vaccines I know of that were cultured this way are Chicken Pox, Rubella, and Hepatitis A which is not usually in the mix for childhood vaccines, but is being considered.

posted August 27, 2002 12:18 PM                  

I don't want my children to get autism. We have a nephew it the disease and it is hideous for the family. My heart breaks for them.

So, I need to further educate myself but I am not sure where to go...

Suggested reading, please.

L

posted August 27, 2002 03:19 PM                  

Try giving Congressman Dan Burton's (IN) office a call and see if they still have the transcripts from his hearings. I do not have the name of a book to give you to read most of the info I had was in the form of medical papers or studies that either our Neurologist or dh's uncle who is a Psychiatrist gave us. Our house is very little 550 sq feet and I have not kept them because of that.

Because I have two children and my sister has one child on the Autism specturm and we have 2 sets of cousins with 3 children between them on the spetrum the Neurologist told us that none of our sibilings should have their kids vaccinated until they were 6. It looks like one of my brothers may have a little girl on the specturm but they have not done a fomal dx yet.

So far my parents have 22 grandchildren and 3 maybe 4 have autism. Out of the 22 grandchildren 19 have been vaccinated. Not every child who gets a vaccination will get Autism.

The best advice I can give you is pray, pray James 1:5-6 and be an educated consumer. God is not the author of fear and if you seek Him He will give you the wisdom you need.

The next best advice I can giveis ask for a single vaccines, vaccines free from therimsol (sp?) and human diploid tissue. Asking for the above types of vaccines will be a safe guard. Nothing in life is guaranteed 100% except His promise that He will give you wisdom when you ask and that He will never leave you or forsake you. I cling to those things and that is where I put my trust.

Blessings 
Rebecca

posted August 27, 2002 03:33 PM                  

From the information we have gathered so far, it looks like we should have him immunized with the dead (right term?) version of this vaccine so that he does not contract it in this way.

Any input? Information?

Thank you everyone for the knowledge I am gaining from this thread.

Michelle

posted August 27, 2002 06:37 PM                  

It was recommended in 2000 that NO ONE be given the live oral polio anymore for this very reason. All the documented cases of polio in the last years were a direct result of the LIVE oral polio. There was a "cut off" date when doctors were supposed to switch over, but I cannot recall when that was (I am pretty sure it was over a year ago). I remember reading about this, and realizing doctors had been made aware that the switch was to take place, but there was this "window" when everyone agreed the vaccine was not totally safe, but doctors were still allowed to give the oral, probably so the stock could be used up. My two vaccinated children received their last oral polio about a month before that "cut off" date. I went and looked at their medical records and was upset when I realized that the doctors knew more than they were telling parents. They should have been giving people a choice.

This is a long-winded answer to your question. NO, your child should not receive the live oral polio. If your doctor is planning on giving that, perhaps you should educate him/her or find a new doctor. I suppose it is possible, with all doctors are doing these days, that he or she might not be aware of this.

posted August 27, 2002 09:57 PM                  

Michelle

posted August 28, 2002 08:12 AM                  

I checked this book out of the library. Be warned, it is a terrifying book to read and if you only read this one vaccine book you will probably never want to vaccinate again. However, it is a book worthy of your time if you are really interested in researching vaccines. I encourage those interested in research to read this book, but balance it with other informative vaccine books. Mr. Coutler is convinced that many of the behavior problems we see in children today, such as ADD, ADHD, autism, and what often becomes deviant behavior in adults, is a direct result of vaccines injuring the brains of children. He is also the author of "Vaccination, Social Violence, and Criminality: The Medical Assault on the American Brain".

Ms. Fisher is one of the founders of the National Vaccine Information Center. I am a member of this. You can learn more about this organization and receive interesting e-mail alerts by going to http://www.909shot.com/

------------------
Adrianne Elbe
Wife to Jeff, Mom to Evelyn (7), Macklin (4 1/2, Autism Spectrum Disorder), and Vivian (2)

posted August 28, 2002 12:11 PM                  

Also I hadn't heard that cp was harmful to men, I thought that it was mumps that was harmful to men. Is this something new or was this a mistake?